Gotta love them Jesus-freaks

[arib]

While waiting at the bus stop with my boss this morning, (she and I occasionally end up on the same bus) we were both approached by missionaries. First they spoke to her, then me.

The approaches they take towards a lapsed Catholic, and an Orthodox Jew are quite different.

They appealed to her obvious fear of going to hell, and my obvious desire to be Born Again.

(Yes, I'm being sarcastic...)

I was too tired to be anything but unfailingly polite.
Stubborn as all get-out, and annoyingly unwilling to acknowledge their view as the One True Way, but unfailingly polite, all the same.

If I'd been more awake, or in a bad mood I probably would've ripped their arguements apart, I was too busy waiting for the caffeine to kick in.

Still, it was fun pointing out to them that, in their opinion, anything I said was an opinion, when everything they said was, of course, The Word Of God.

"So, you're telling me that my religion, which is older than yours by several millenia, and is, in fact, the root religion of Christianity, is wrong?" I said, again, as politely as possible.

"Yes, exactly!" They (yes, there were two of 'em) replied, hoping to make some headway.

"and you learned this in the Bible?"

"Yeah"

and here's where I got 'em...
I reached into my workbag, and pulled out my siddur (prayer book) which also has most of the Tanach (aka Old Testament) in it.

"Okay, where?"

"Oh, but we can't read Hebrew..."

"So, you can't even read the language it was written in? How do you know you haven't been reading a mistranslation all your life?"

"Well, we don't really, but we can assume..."

"You can assume that a translation of a translation of a translation of something is as accurate as the original? Really?"

"Well, when you put it that way..."

"Exactly, now there's my bus, if you'll excuse me. Have a great day, and God bless..."

My boss nearly applauded.

and all this before the morning Dunkachino. Oy.

Comments

[ororo.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite things to do with folks that zealous is to simply point out that Jesus Christ was Jewish.

Annoys the heck of out them for some reason. . . .

Re:

[arib.livejournal.com]

Oh, no. They were very quick to point out that Jesus was a Jew.

So was Karl Marx, you don't see every Jew practicing Socialism.

and Karl's a cousin of mine...

[tsjafo.livejournal.com]

Karl? Wasn't he one of the Marx brothers? I seem to remember Groucho, Zeppo, Chico and Karl, right?

*grin, duck & run!*

Re:

[arib.livejournal.com]

Don't forget Gummo and Trotsky... :-)

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

Trotsky Marx? Say it ain't so!

:-)

[griffen.livejournal.com]

He shoots, he scores! Mad props to Ari! :)

Go you, boy. Go you. :)

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

I love your calm. :)

[born-to-me.livejournal.com]

Bravo. Beautiful. Excellent. Thank you. *hugs*

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

and all this before the morning Dunkachino.

Go, you!

I don't know if I told you this story already or not, but some missionaries were doing my street during finals last semester. I answered the door in my Poohbear sleep shirt, and they asked if there was a better time for them to come back and talk with me. I made an appointment for the following Friday morning, but they never showed up. Too bad, I like talking religion with people, so long as they don't insist that I agree with them, and I made that clear to them from the start. Maybe that's why they didn't return. :

[valkyrwench.livejournal.com]

Oh, well done! Bravo.

[kayre]

Okay, where?"
"Oh, but we can't read Hebrew..."
"So, you can't even read the language it was written in? How do you know you haven't been reading a mistranslation all your life?"
"Well, we don't really, but we can assume..."
"You can assume that a translation of a translation of a translation of something is as accurate as the original? Really?"
I don’t intend to defend the people you encountered. However, I wish they hadn’t been too ignorant to counter your arguments at this point. The characterization of English Bibles as “a translation of a translation of a translation of something” is not accurate except with reference to the King James version, and possibly the Revised Standard-- did you have reason to believe they were using one of those versions?

If you truly wish to question the integrity or intelligence of all Christians who read the Bible in English translation, I’m one of them. I read enough Hebrew to use dictionaries and study aids to clarify questions that may arise. I’ve done enough research into the various translations to learn which are in fact direct translations of the Hebrew and Greek texts, done by ecumenical groups of scholars (including Jews, participating in the translation of both Testaments) whose integrity and scholarship I trust. But my primary resources are two English translations of the Bible..

Re:

[arib.livejournal.com]

I don’t intend to defend the people you encountered. However, I wish they hadn’t been too ignorant to counter your arguments at this point. The characterization of English Bibles as “a translation of a translation of a translation of something” is not accurate except with reference to the King James version, and possibly the Revised Standard-- did you have reason to believe they were using one of those versions?

From the handout they gave me, they were using the KJV.

I'm hardly questioning the integrity of anyone who uses a translation of the Bible. I use a side-by-side English-Hebrew version myself, most of the time. I'd probably question the intelligence of the two missionaries I spoke with the other day, to be honest. I've seen better. They didn't even try to address my concerns about translation errors at all.

I'm 100% fine with anyone finding spiritual meaning in whatever way they can, but missionaries sometimes get my goat, is all.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I for one am impressed with you, Ari. :) Not least because I was raised reading the KJV and also was raised to be a missionary like the ones you described, something I've come to find somewhere between in poor taste and moderately unethical.

One thing that struck me about the KJV was that it actually wasn't a bad translation for its day, but among other factors many of the words in it have changed meaning in non-obvious, misleading ways. Unfortunately, I'm not sufficiently motivated to find examples for you. *smile*

Anyway. I think you deflected the missionaries without denigrating Christianity, and I just thought I should tell you that. :) *hug*

A.

[cellio]

Beautiful!

I heard a similar story once (no idea if it's really true) about a woman who was approached at home. She got to the same point about language and they said "but learning Hebrew is too hard!" She then asked her 6-year-old daughter, who was standing with her at the door, to fetch Mommy's chumash. ("Which one?" "Any will do, dear.") She then opened the chumash and asked said 6-year-old daughter to read and translate, which she proceeded to do. The look on the missionaries' faces was described as "priceless". :-)

Re:

[arib.livejournal.com]

Cool. :-)

By the by, have we met? If not, welcome to my journal, how'd you find it?

[cellio]

As far as I know we haven't met. I hope you don't mind the random intrusion. I've seen comments from you in other people's journals (at least Tigerbright) and followed a link. You have interesting things to say and we seem to have similar interests, and I found myself coming back to read more.

I just added you to my friends list, though if you object I'll undo that. (Still learning the LJ etiquette on that...) No obligation to reciprocate, of course!